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OnDaFence 36M/44M
44267 posts
11/13/2017 9:07 pm

Last Read:
11/15/2017 9:49 pm

A Penny for Your Thoughts



way..... Way..... WAY !!!! back when a penny was a PENNY! During our earliest post colonial period even a Half penny was worth counterfeiting! In today's world it's almost inconceivable when it now costs our government 1.3 cents to make those shiny red coins.



Yet it happened. Over the weekend I managed to bid on and win one of those counterfeit coins with an incredible history behind it.



Our early post-colonial economy was in abject confusion and disarray. Operating in total secrecy, this clandestine mint was located in upstate New York, about 60 miles north of New York City. Most of its minting activities were done at night, under cover of darkness. Despite this, the number of counterfeits struck were prolific …



Severe shortages abound, a vast variety of coins circulated within the young country. Emissions from Norway, France, Spain, Germany were freely exchanged alongside private, counterfeit, evasion, and regal coinages from England. Privately minted coppers from New Jersey, Massachusetts, New York, Vermont, and Connecticut freely changed hands alongside American-made contemporary counterfeits. Anything that resembled the size and weight of an English halfpence, and could be plausibly inferred as intrinsically being made from copper, passed muster in the public’s eyes. The Spanish Milled dollar was considered legal currency clear until 1846 by our government for all debts public and private.



Machin’s Mint was located in the State of New York, and began operation around 1787. Of all the various coins produced at the location, Vermont coinages were the only authorized coinages actually produced at the mint. All others were a "private endeavor." The mint itself was located along the shoreline of Orange Pond, near the town of Newburgh NY about 60 miles north of New York City. The operation itself was undertaken in complete secrecy, with most of its minting activities occurring at night. The mill itself was erected on the bank of an outlet creek to provide necessary water power.



The counterfeits that the Machin’s Mills mint produced were quite prolific. Examples have been found all over the northeast and mid-Atlantic regions of the United States. To ensure the public’s acceptance of these counterfeits, die-smiths intentionally cut dies which were made to look weak.



Other dies, having been used in previously authorized strikes, were intentionally smoothed so that they produced coins which also appeared weak. The idea was, the more worn a coin looked, the more readily accepted it would be by the general public. Coins having a worn appearance gave the false impression the coin had seen much use, and therefore must be legitimate. Coins having a newly minted appearance, using counterfeited dies, stood a much larger chance of being rejected.



Robert Vlack in his book “A Catalog of Early American Coins” made one of the first concerted efforts at identifying the contemporary counterfeit emissions produced at the Machin’s Mills mint. Included within his book were a set of plates which illustrated those emissions. Since that time, previously unidentified counterfeit varieties have been attributed to the mint, and added to the list.



In this day and age counterfeiting pennies or any coins for that matter seems almost impossible yet this clandestine operation managed to operate and "show a profit." Those involved were never brought to justice, charges filed, nor even an exact date when they ceased operations known. Besides they were counterfeiting coins of that old King George so who cared!


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/13/2017 9:08 pm

The third picture down from the top is the coin I won.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/13/2017 9:09 pm

All the other pictures I found on the net


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/13/2017 9:10 pm

I find early American coinage most interesting.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/13/2017 9:16 pm

It took our authorized Federal Mint in Philadelphia from 1783 clear until 1846 to mint a sufficient quantity of coins to declare only American coins to be legal tender for all debts public and private. The die making, minting process coupled with even acquiring the precious metals such an arduous task.


Hungr4Yungr 75M
5766 posts
11/13/2017 9:33 pm

Very interesting expose Bret. The coins you got are ornately minted and are a beautiful addition to your collection. Good eye! Sharp bidding!

Hope you are feeling better tonight.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/13/2017 10:17 pm

    Quoting Hungr4Yungr:
    Very interesting expose Bret. The coins you got are ornately minted and are a beautiful addition to your collection. Good eye! Sharp bidding!

    Hope you are feeling better tonight.
Not feeling any better but going into the Dr tomorrow.. I just couldn't today looking so raggy. Hanna will be here in the morning to help get my hair and nails done.


jrodd 65M
4396 posts
11/14/2017 1:04 am

I recommend you see your doc . yes the phoney coins would have historical value.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/14/2017 1:28 am

    Quoting jrodd:
    I recommend you see your doc . yes the phoney coins would have historical value.
Jr when the colonies left King George and England it was more like a divorce, where as Canada and Australia were prepared for independence like a parent prepares a child for the real world. No other country has ever been like the UK instilling into the world a sense of good government, Courts, and a legal system handed down by Rome assuring mankind a chance for a decent productive life.


Stevie1954 66T
551 posts
11/14/2017 5:47 am

Spoken like a true numismatist! Thanks for the informative piece!


bychance4709 61M

11/14/2017 7:12 am

excellent post, worth the wait


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/14/2017 5:26 pm

    Quoting Stevie1954:
    Spoken like a true numismatist! Thanks for the informative piece!
It ties in so well with an often times avoided point in our history.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/14/2017 5:28 pm

Thank you. We had a hell of a time getting things together in those first few formative years.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/14/2017 5:33 pm

    Quoting woodcarver2:
    Very interesting and well written as usual. I wonder if any of the new coins we use today are being counterfited in some old barn, deserted house or closed factory?? If so, I have a feeling that I'd be more inclined to put my faith in the fake coins rather than those that come from the mint. Not positively sure about that tho. LOL
It is my understanding the Brits had a counterfeiting problem with their 1 pound coins and have since switched to a bimetallic coin. It is also rumored that the Saudi's counterfeited our Saint Gaudin's $20 gold piece with the restrikes being so perfect they even fool the experts. (same purity of gold too.)


Spicy_D69 61M
514 posts
11/14/2017 10:34 pm

Very interesting


jrodd 65M
4396 posts
11/15/2017 12:28 am

be neat some old mafia bill


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/15/2017 9:44 pm

I thought you might enjoy the piece of history not far from you.


OnDaFence 36M/44M

11/15/2017 9:49 pm

    Quoting jrodd:
    be neat some old mafia bill
Crimes against the King!